Glam as a Feminist Statement

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(19 posts)

Started 1 year ago by ClockworkDemon
Latest reply from metalrulesall

ClockworkDemon
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Now, before I make my point, I'm going to need to give a little aside on what I mean by feminist. I do consider myself a feminist, because I believe women should have the right to vote, not be raped, and men and women should be allowed equal rights in most circumstances (meaning that basically people should be allowed to have equal freedom of choice, whether you want to go for a career as a home maker, or a rockstar or a rocket scientist, you go and you work for it, and I hope regardless of your gender/sex you get where you wanna go).

The word feminist has been stigmatized by people who oppose egalitarian treatment of the sexes, so that a lot of people think you're some crazy man hating anti-sex nut job when you use the word, but that's not what it's supposed to mean. I love men, I really love men, well not all men, but I love men at about the same rate I love women and people in general, but generally I think people are pretty awesome.

One thing I think that second wave feminism (the 60s and 70s era of feminism) got wrong was it really stigmatized femininity which is a pretty negative message if you ask me, basically associating a lot of positive traits traditionally associated with femininity (nurturing, aesthetic concerns, etc) and stigmatized them, basically saying it was okay for a little girl to improve herself by being more like a little boy, but for a boy to do anything feminine was still associated with weakness.

I think glam is kind of the ultimate rebellion against that femininity=passivity or femininity=weakness gender norm. I think glam dudes are doing something incredibly brave when they don makeup, it's about the biggest fuck you to society you can give. Glam spits in the face of terms like sissy. Glam rock owns its sexuality, owns its strength, and I think is a fantastic example of aggressive (rather than passive) femininity. It's also a great example of femininity and masculinity coexisting without one destroying the other, it seems like so many guys think things like makeup or glitter are embarrassing, or metaphorically castrating, when really it takes balls the size of watermelons to do that as a dude.

In any case, enough of my rambling, basically I just thought it was an interesting and under appreciated aspect of glam.

Beautiful Boys Are Madeira's Toys

Posted 1 year ago #
ClockworkDemon
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Thinking about this some more, I was realizing, holy crap I'm really onto something, listening to some lyrics in context a few things clicked.

There are a lot of glam songs that are pretty much about the virgin/whore dichotomy, and they basically come out on the "women who enjoy sex on their own terms are awesome" side of things.

(A quick aside for those who don't know what the virgin/whore dichotomy is. The virgin/whore dichotomy is a misogynist way of viewing women, where men see women who have sexual desire/seem to enjoy sex as bad/dirty whores, and while they still want them as sexual partners they relegate them to the fringes of society and would never openly have a relationship with such a woman, whereas the women they marry/have relationships with/etc are repressed women with no interest in sex and basically women who take pleasure in sex (and enjoy having it for their own pleasure, not just to please their parters) are considered bad/dirty/etc)

"Tainted Angel" by South Gang pretty much covers this, as does "She's No Angel" by covered by Michael Monroe, as well as numerous others including "Good Girl Gone Bad" by Kiss, "Sweet Little Sister" by Skid Row, "Love Bomb Baby" by TigerTailz and to an extent "Cherry Pie" by Warrent all of which come down pretty positively on the side of women who have a healthy attitude towards sex being more viable long term partners than women who do not.

As well a lot of glam's songs about girls are pretty expressly positive, and it seems the quintessential archetype of the rock babe, is a pretty healthy ideal of womanhood. She's usually portrayed as tough, her partner's intellectual equal, independent, healthfully sexual, and not the type to be taken advantage of.

Examples: "Don't you ever leave me" - Hanoi Rocks, "All Lips and Hips" - Electric Boys, "I Wanna Be With You" - Pretty Boy Floyd, "Hot Love" - Twisted Sister, "Cowgirl" - Sons Of Angels, "Still in Love" - The Stage Dolls, "I was Made For Loving You" - Kiss.

Obviously these songs often largely celebrate the sexual aspect these relationships, but the women portrayed are always fully involved enthusiastic participants on the same page about commitment (whether they want it or not, the lyrics suggest that no one is being lied to about what said sexual activity will lead to) and these songs are largely written by young men, and written for an audience in their teens and early 20s, what else do you expect them to have on their mind?

Not to mention actual glam babes are usually pretty awesome themselves, women like Lita Ford, Joan Jett, Doro Pesche, Lee Aaron, the girls in Vixen, and numerous others are all self possessed strong women.

Even songs that are less positive in their view of a specific woman often challenge specific stereotypes about women (IE: that it's always the man who just wants casual sex, and women have to trap them into a relationship) songs like "Angel In Black" by Bangalore Choir are excellent examples of this.

All of this adds up to, holy shit glam was tackling way more issues than it realized it was, managing to get to the right idea and stay there on pure instinct... which is pretty awesome.

Beautiful Boys Are Madeira's Toys

Posted 1 year ago #
ClockworkDemon
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I was hoping to spark some discussion here, please feel free to jump in

Beautiful Boys Are Madeira's Toys

Posted 1 year ago #
KarKing Jack
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I was gonna post a while ago, but I thought I'd give some things some time to still...

Anyway, thats really clever! I totally agree, like. I've always been a little bit of a feminist, myself. I mean, since real Feminism means 'Non-sexism' then yeah, I'm sure a lot of us our! And its an aspect of my chosen religion, Norse Paganism, that I love, where it depicts the male gods as absolute idiots - awesome and loveable idiots, ofcourse, but idiots nonetheless - and women as, well, intellectual and... Able to do things without killing millions, LOL.

And I guess thats probably what subliminally attracted me to Glam Rock, too.

Ive listened to these songs since with this in mind and yeah, really! I see it!

As well as this, you know, Glam Metal was a loooot more accepting of women than Metal was. I mean, look at the success of The Runaways, Vixen, Joan Jett, Warlock, so on so on. As opposed to the rest of metal, where the only female band around was Girlschool, and they were being very much protected by Motorhead, who everyone loved.

Doro Pesch didnt need any protecting - hey, I wouldn't even try!

Posted 1 year ago #
ClockworkDemon
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Yeah, that's very true. I also think it's kind of cool how glam is usually such a non-politicized genre, it doesn't talk about politics, it talks about the issues, and I think that's awesome. Too many very political bands forget how to just let themselves express what they're feeling, whereas with glam it seems like what the musician is feeling, their self expression ends up naturally being a political statement whether intended or not.

Beautiful Boys Are Madeira's Toys

Posted 1 year ago #
KarKing Jack
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Yeah!
Well, as a rule, Glam Rockers tend to be Anarchists - I reckon that was rooted in the 70s, where Glam Rock was very closely linked with the other side of the coin, the UK underground. Bands like the Pink Fairies, Hawkwind, most Prog bands - countless others, really - would hang out with boys like David Bowie, Marc Bolan, because they themselves used to do Psychadellic/Underground stuff, before making Glam albums. Same happened in America -- Alice Cooper used to be a real hash-out sort of band.

That side of the spectrum were all generally anarchists. And they believed by playing music, usually not having homes, and living their debauched lives, was a political statment enough. It was a social statment, which mattered more to them, too. Pink Fairies 'Do It' coins the Political/Social side of the UK Underground, I believe. So when it came to making music, they didnt need a political statment. They didnt care if everyone agreed with them or not. I like bands with a political statment, though, they have aspirations.

Anyway, the same things happened in the 80s. They had their roots in punk, our Glam Metallers. And punk was very anarchistical, and very political in a totally other way. Thats why I reckon, lol.

Posted 1 year ago #
squid
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Thats makes me feel special about wearing eyeliner, lol.

Posted 1 year ago #
strypercobra
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You have some great insights there. There is definitely a correlation between glam and feminism - maybe not completely apparent at first glance, but certainly one of its underpinnings.

As you hinted at, the prevalent view that femininity – or any characteristics perceived as weak and effeminate – should be largely avoided, especially by men, is unfair and very flawed. Why is it still considered an accolade when one says, "You da man!", but an insult when they say, "You're such a girl!”? Therefore, when men do things contrary to this expected societal norm, like growing their hair long or wearing make-up, I really do believe that, as you mentioned so eloquently, this is a superlative form of rebellion against that imbalanced and erroneous perspective, and further displays that they are confident in who they are and comfortable in their masculinity.

Posted 1 year ago #
Glamrockerfs
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A lady who is a good friend and shes kindof my bands band mom, she takes our photos and helps manage us, who is an older glam chick was a teen/20 year old in hollywood in the 80s described the 80s as the second sexual revolution, "a woman could sleep with a man without being in love with him the next morning she could simply have fun"

Posted 1 year ago #
Steel Rose
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Yeah! I totally agree... lots of girls I know are as bad as guys for calling me gay just cos I wear glam clothes. Guys dressing femininely is like totally looked down upon here in Edinburgh.

You should take your theories to the people who claim glam is male dominated and sexist as it views women as sex objects only.

Posted 1 year ago #
metalrulesall
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heres my theory ok...lyircs are just lyrics and the songs are just songs even tho certain lines in certain songs such as "take it tonight like a bitch makin' heat" from acdc's fly on the wall or "was it hot for you did you fire this round the second that im through ill be leaving this town" from motley crues ten seconds to love...as you can see it cleary labels women as sex objects but people need to realize that was the style back then and its not the guys who rote them songs have no love for women cause most of them are married and have kids

" into the flood again same old trip it was back then "

Posted 1 year ago #
Salem
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News Flash:
Glam is male dominated and sexist and it views women as sex objects only.
Did anyone actually doubt this?

Now before anyone starts talking about the success of the glam girl bands, yes maybe us guys did respect them for their playing and their music. But deep down inside we really just wanted to boink 'em.

Is glam male dominated and sexist? Definitely yes, but we like it that way.

http://www.myspace.com/trashbrat Hated By Millions...Loved By All.

Posted 1 year ago #
metalrulesall
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we sure do

" into the flood again same old trip it was back then "

Posted 1 year ago #
Shadow_of_A_Doubt
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If the norm dosent like it or takes a 2nd look at it, its got to be a good thing. This has held true for decades before glam. If your parents dont like it, its always great. Guys with make-up and long hair is just a form of self expression. No different then tattos, earings or whatever you might see on someone without make-up. Guys are often thought to be " Hot " when they dawn the eye-liner or hair spray. But some believe that girls that dress this way looks like a slut or sexually provocative eyecandy for some teenage boy with him hormones working overtime. kinda a double standard. Like the guy that bangs girls wrecklessly is a stud, but the girl that bangs guys the same way is thought of as a whore. Anyways the make up on guys is just a form of expression, Dare to be Different. I remember seeing the new Hit Parader Magazine back around 1983-1984 and the guy next to me saying how hot that girl back was. Had to tell him, thoes arent chicks, thats a band called Poison and thats their new album " Look what the cat dragged In "

But women have always been demrialized by the men in rock. Thats just how its been. From the groupies that hang at the backstage door after a concert wanting to have a relationship with their favorite rocker, to the concerts where the band has their own females onstage with them, to the rock videos. Its just a male dominated form of entertainment, since males have the higher sex drive. Thats just nature. Back in the 80s we didnt see any of the rock concerts where the girl is onstage with a band getting " tortured " by a band as they performed. Its all part of the act, trying some girl up onstage and doing whatever to her, or seeing some girl in a rock video dry hump a car or something as a song plays. Now that I look back on thoes days, it was almost exploytation of women.\

As for women in music, Lita Ford , Doro , Joan Jett, Vixen all have the gift. Its hard to learn to play a musical instrument. It takes lots of practice to get good. Then form a band and keep the same band, then even harder to land a record deal. All the while keep from getting fucked over by the business. Getting ripped off, getting underpaid .... If they have what it takes like these girls do - so be it. In the end they are just people, they get up every day, probably practice practice practice, go on a few concert tours get paid and move on. They are doing a job just like most of us do. Most of us just dont get up in front of a stadium of 50,000 cheering people and perform. Its still a job for them, no different then a kid that has to go to work at McDonalds every day. Just that their job is a million times better, its still a job.

Posted 1 year ago #
ClockworkDemon
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I would like to point out that sexualizing women and objectifying them are different things. It's perfectly possible to respect someone and want to boink them (I respect Michael Monroe, I want to boink Michael Monroe) and similarly, I wouldn't say BDSM is inherently opposed to feminism. I'm involved in a lifestyle BDSM relationship and quite happy. I think that the difference is choice, and it seems like glam respects femininity enough to let women make their own choices, both men and women can enjoy good sex. Sex is not inherently exploitive either, if a woman wants to dry hump a car, that's cool. If a man want to dry hump a car that's also cool. As long as acts remain between consenting adults it's all cool.

Rock in general is male dominated, but I would suspect that it's largely because rock n' roll in general is a mating display thing which is generally something men do.

Beautiful Boys Are Madeira's Toys

Posted 1 year ago #
Dash
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She's back!!! Hahaha....I have nothing to say on this thread cuz I don't like politics...but damn clockwork,u haven't said anythin in a loooong time

Dan Dash

Posted 1 year ago #
theonlygoodthingvlog
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My mum says the reason it's supposedly easier for a girl to be boy-ish than a boy to be girly is because of sexism. The aspect where men are supposed to be better and not lower themselves to the same level as women. I guess that makes sense. Doesn't make it any less stupid.

I'm a feminist too. Women are equal to men. I AM bisexual, but I am definitely not a man-hater. I hate that so many people think that. I've heard from several men that they prefer sex with feminists, probably because they actually respect themselves enough to enjoy themselves than just be a living sex doll xD

But getting off topic... Glam is definitely feminist and supportive of human rights, mainly sexual liberation in all ways. We shouldn't hide sexuality.

I also hate how some people associate men wearing makeup with homosexuality. STUPID. Who says women have to be "glammed" up and men shouldn't be? Others would say I'm a closeted dyke for being attracted to men in makeup, but how is being attracted to a man in tight clothing (and clearly showing off his male figure) and looking as gorgeous as a made-up woman, make me gay?

Anyway, sorry for the long rant. I find it hard to pass one topic, without going into depth xD Stop me at any time. And hopefully this made sense.

Posted 7 months ago #
Shadow_of_A_Doubt
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Ive had to sit and think about this for a while. Women arent as exployted as they are made out to be. Porn, rock/metal videos, concerts, women who do these things are paid. Paid well I may add. Sex sells. what can be said. Theres alot of lonely people out there who will pay. Christ, back when I was about 16 I bought that Lita Ford poster and had it framed, where shes nude with only her BC Rich guitar covering herself with. Women know that the male sex drive is greater then the females. For example, a fat guy and a BBW woman go into a bar, it dosent take a genius to know who will go home alone and who wont. Because women can get nearly whomever they want. They can manipulate men to do what they want. Glam as well as other industries have used it to their advantage. Rappers use women in their videos , Crue has always had the Nasty Habits at their concerts. The way I see it, everyone from glam, to rappers to Larry Flint - Hustler magazine publisher make money because women fully willing to exployt mens sexual desires for a fee. These practices also help to give people , especially females complexes. They all want to look like Tawney Kittan in that Whitesnake video or have the perfect Beyonce body, but dont. For some women/girls this is a very bad thing.

Posted 2 months ago #
metalrulesall
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i think everyone should be treated equally no better no worse

" into the flood again same old trip it was back then "

Posted 2 months ago #